tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post115617109253709817..comments2023-08-20T07:06:14.115-04:00Comments on Thurber's Thoughts: Questions on the arena financing planMaggiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1158016102783087262006-09-11T19:08:00.000-04:002006-09-11T19:08:00.000-04:00Loafer - first, a clarification...The Convention C...Loafer - first, a clarification...The Convention Center doesn't get $500,000 per year anymore. It's only been $150,000 for the last several years. But I believe you're more right than wrong on the other points - especially about a new arena being in competition with other venues in the area.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156331649332225612006-08-23T07:14:00.000-04:002006-08-23T07:14:00.000-04:00Michael...I agree - the attendance figures are no...Michael...I agree - the attendance figures are not what I would have expected from a new arena, especially in light of the attendance at 5/3 Field.<BR/><BR/>But the figures are based upon average attendance at other arenas, some of which are relatively new. Even if the attendance estimates are low, there's plenty of room for growth between the estimated 6,000 attendance and the 8,000 seat availability. And design options could be considered which would allow for easy expansion in the future if desired.<BR/><BR/>The Mud Hens have been very successful and the stadium is EXTREMELY well managed. I have a lot of confidence in the management staff and the Mud Hens board. The additional revenue that the Mud Hens have produced is being used to help budget the general fund for the County. There appears to be some different interpretations of their contract. While the Mud Hens have not fought the County's use of the additional revenue in such a way - primarily because of the financial situation of the County over the last several years - I believe their interpretation is that such additional funds should be used to pay down the principle on their stadium debt.<BR/><BR/>If (and that's a big 'if') the Mud Hens were to purchase a franchise AND they were to retain the additional revenue, the County would have budgetary problems. While that's NOT a reason to oppose such an arrangement, it is an issue to be considered and addressed as part of the discussion.<BR/><BR/>I'll add your question about the attendance estimates to the list! thanks!Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156331025814629622006-08-23T07:03:00.000-04:002006-08-23T07:03:00.000-04:00I received the following via email and am posting ...<I>I received the following via email and am posting it per the author's request.</I><BR/><BR/>Maggie....I was having trouble posting on your blog so I thought I would jot<BR/>you a note directly<BR/> <BR/>While I agree all of your questions on the financing are valid, I think that<BR/>the one item I got out of reading the report was that the attendance figures<BR/>used for the primary tenant the hockey team were in my view very<BR/>conservative. <BR/><BR/>We all agree that Ned Skelden Stadium was politely put a quaint farmers<BR/>viewing stand. It at least had charm to those that went and in general was<BR/>not the primary reason that people stayed away from Mud Hens games. It was<BR/>able to provide a level of family entertainment that has been greatly<BR/>improved at Fifth Third Field and attendance has improved significantly. <BR/><BR/>The Sports Arena on the other hand can not be classified as generously.<BR/>It's a toilet and anyone with a family would refuse to take their children<BR/>there. It's as dank and disgusting as a lot of the people that attend the<BR/>games with a constant barrage of obscenities from fans that have kept my<BR/>family away for years. This report suggests only a slight increase in<BR/>attendance. With a properly maintained and managed facility the increase in<BR/>attendance would be much more significant. No report of this type should be<BR/>that optimistic, but I think it lends some reason for faith in the project. <BR/><BR/>Another revenue source is Fifth Third Field itself. Each year the Hens have<BR/>been paying back their portion of the debt at an advanced rate. While some<BR/>may not support the transfer in funds, most would if the same board operated<BR/>both teams. <BR/><BR/>The movie Field of Dreams quote "build it and they will come" has been used<BR/>sarcastically to oppose this project. It is so overdue that I believe<BR/>people will come. More tours would come instead of skipping the market all<BR/>together, especially if a national arena manager is used that could leverage<BR/>the rent of a number of facilites to attract tours here. More people would<BR/>attend hockey games and other events would be created. <BR/><BR/>Government is there to provide infrastructure. This facility would be a<BR/>needed compliment to our convention center and provide life to another<BR/>section of downtown. <BR/><BR/>We have to get together and find a way to get it done, not just by coming up<BR/>with questions but suggesting alternatives. <BR/><BR/>Keep up the good fight..the county will miss you when you are gone <BR/> <BR/>MichaelMaggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156290250950119872006-08-22T19:44:00.000-04:002006-08-22T19:44:00.000-04:00Maggie,I suppose it’s time for me to chime in on y...<B>Maggie</B>,<BR/><BR/>I suppose it’s time for me to chime in on your questions and concerns with the arena financing ;-)<BR/><BR/>I believe you when you’re in favor of an arena, who wouldn’t be?<BR/><BR/>I agree with you about the parking situation. In my opinion, some sort of additional parking structure would be in order, if patronage in the winter months is in the plan, as I believe it is; you’re right about Toledoans not liking to walk a few blocks, especially when the snow blows.<BR/><BR/>Size matters, and should be carefully considered before this project is finalized. A frank and open discussion with the movers and shakers at U.T. is in order, before the final capacity is decided.<BR/><BR/>The County Commissioners should NOT entertain thoughts of purchasing a franchise now. The could later, although I doubt it.<BR/><BR/>As for the financials:<BR/><BR/>This project, if it is to be successful, should be privately driven; taxpayers should take a back seat on this project. But, that ain’t gonna happen because some small minority of politicians are flashing our tax money around like drunken sailors (I wonder where they learned that?). So, this project appears to be primarily driven by political egos, in lieu of any good and experienced business sense.<BR/><BR/>You have to love those “slippery” estimates and foggy numbers being tossed around; points to a complete lack of business acumen in the planning process.<BR/><BR/><BR/>And, the “revenue” numbers are pure fantasy!<BR/><BR/>* The hotel/motel tax increase, in lieu of neighboring rates, is counterproductive.<BR/><BR/>* The “savings” from retiring the SeaGate Center’s bonds is a sleight-of-hand debt switch, without the benefit of taxpayer approval.<BR/><BR/>* The money from the Ohio Cultural Facilities Commission, is highly optimistic, to say the least.<BR/><BR/>* The naming rights revenue (the only private money in the project) unprecedented, and unlikely to fully materialize.<BR/><BR/>* The Federal transportation grant for TARTA, is the most likely funding source to be realized.<BR/><BR/>* The revenue bonds are based on purely speculative numbers, which may never be realized, especially if UT gets into the arena business.<BR/><BR/>I could go on, but you’ve done such a very thorough job, there is no need for me to redo it.<BR/><BR/>Let me say that the fact that your co-commissioners votes indicate to me that this is, first and foremost, a political decision, as any thinking individual would have to have serious reservations with the proposal, as presented.<BR/><BR/>With a project of this scope and size, with such heavy taxpayer involvement, and with such speculative “revenue” numbers, one would expect all of the Commissioners to have cautious reservations and LOTS of very detailed questions before buying in, which doesn’t appear to be the case.<BR/><BR/>As one lone taxpayer, I would like to personally thank you for your intense interest, scrutiny and reservations about this highly speculative project. <BR/><BR/>If it were up to me, I too would have to say no. To do otherwise would be to deny what my senses were telling me…<BR/><BR/>Does anyone else besides me see this as a giant house of cards?Hooda Thunkit (Dave Zawodny)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13176392380086227377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156278547810065382006-08-22T16:29:00.000-04:002006-08-22T16:29:00.000-04:00-sepp...another good question that I will add to l...-sepp...another good question that I will add to list. I hope to ask these questions as part of a presentation to the BCC, but if I cannot get agreement to have Mr. Chema present to the Board, I will make sure that these questions are asked at each of the public hearings.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156261157791016402006-08-22T11:39:00.000-04:002006-08-22T11:39:00.000-04:00I'm also glad that you would question these things...I'm also glad that you would question these things and in a good position to do so. How will the decrease in Toledo's population effect the plan later down the line when we've lost even more people?-Sepphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11187463448901564093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156199548176290772006-08-21T18:32:00.000-04:002006-08-21T18:32:00.000-04:00Lisa - great question about renaming SeaGate. I'l...Lisa - great question about renaming SeaGate. I'll ask that question as well.<BR/><BR/>And thanks! Sometimes I'm around people who think I'm nuts because I ask such questions...it's nice to know that others think these questions are important, too!Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-1156194326089550982006-08-21T17:05:00.000-04:002006-08-21T17:05:00.000-04:00Overall I don't disagree with your position, I wou...Overall I don't disagree with your position, I would ask some of the same basic questions you are. I'd like more specifics more ironclad details than what we have right now. <BR/><BR/>It may be a small thing but if the SeaGate Center is re-named there will be costs associated with that. Even with including the SeaGate as a part of the naming rights process I think 14 million might be more than what we are going to get.<BR/><BR/>I also wonder what would happen if the Legislature doesn't approve the increase in the hotel/motel tax? What if the other communities who collect it decide to not turn it over to the County. What if hotel/motel owners don't support this? Since I was at the same Community Forum, quite a few people were nodding their heads in agreement when the statement was made about that increased tax being the last thing people remember about Toledo. That's not the way to get more visitors. "Come to Toledo one of the highest amounts charged in taxes per visitor" doesn't seem to be something we'd want on our welcome sign. <BR/><BR/>I also hope that people read the documentation on this and show up for the hearings. I'm glad you are asking questions, thank you!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00606533906583651054noreply@blogger.com