tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post3611316641571979783..comments2023-08-20T07:06:14.115-04:00Comments on Thurber's Thoughts: Kasich's severance tax increase a bad ideaMaggiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-65176110491386051452012-06-27T06:40:24.337-04:002012-06-27T06:40:24.337-04:00We certainly disagree on this, that's for sure...We certainly disagree on this, that's for sure...but I take exception to your interpretation that a non-violation of the ATR pledge is the same thing as Grover Norquist 'supporting' a tax increase.<br /><br />But here we do agree - it is wrong to say that Kasich and Obama are the same. Having the same policy regarding a specific item (in this case the concept of taxing one group in order to give the takings to another) does not make the two the same - but the comparison of the <i>policy</i> and the <i>approach</i> is fair and accurate.<br /><br />As for Kasich's conservativism, I'm a big one for consistency of principle. This severance tax policy is NOT consistent with conservative principles. Does that make Kasich a non-conservative? No - but it doesn't help his conservative reputation nor the conservative 'brand.'Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-26968677854385054572012-06-26T22:57:04.274-04:002012-06-26T22:57:04.274-04:00I still see the proposal as modernizing our energy...I still see the proposal as modernizing our energy policy. Not counting coal, we've never been a large energy producer, so our tax policy didnt matter much.<br /><br />Now that we are going to be producing a lot of gas and oil, it makes sense to take advantage of our resources and lower our tax burden.<br /><br />It will only help our economy, not hurt it.<br /><br />Regarding the ATR pledge, you either violate the pledge, or you don't. Thumbs up or thumbs down.<br /><br />(I also didn't claim that the gas in the ground "belonged to all of us". I said it could benefit all of us taxpayers. Big difference! Of course, the land owners will benefit personally as well.)<br /><br />I guess we will see what happens in the legislature. But folks who are out there questioning Kasich's conservatism and saying he is the same as Obama need to think about what that really means.Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-63992921101039258592012-06-25T22:28:26.019-04:002012-06-25T22:28:26.019-04:00Additionally, the National Taxpayers Union called ...Additionally, the National Taxpayers Union called the severance tax plan a “damaging” and “punitive” energy tax hike.<br /><br />Clearly not a conservative thing to propose, regardless of how the increased taxes will be spent.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-18252136649283321362012-06-25T22:22:28.451-04:002012-06-25T22:22:28.451-04:00Nick - you should know better than to try and spin...Nick - you should know better than to try and spin things with me. Norquist didn't give the plan a thumbs up - it is only according to Office of Budget and Management Director Tim Keen who said he contacted ATR and was told the severance tax doesn't violate their no tax increase pledge.<br /><br />That's a far cry from giving the tax a thumb's up.<br /><br />Additionally, you can dispute the term 'redistribute' on the basis of no middle man (government), but that doesn't change the fact that redistribution is what this is.<br /><br />What else do you call taxing one group (drillers) in order to give the funds to another group (individual taxpayers)? You seem to think that because government isn't keeping the money to spend on other programs, that somehow negates the redistribution.<br /><br />But by any name and regardless of how you try to spin it, redistribution of wealth away from one and toward another is EXACTLY what this is.<br /><br />And it's contrary to basic core conservative principles - no matter how much people may like it.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-69168909417323548832012-06-25T21:34:45.999-04:002012-06-25T21:34:45.999-04:00I disagree with the term "redistribute" ...I disagree with the term "redistribute" being used in conjunction with the severance tax proposal. In Obama's case it is appropriate because the funds would go to increased government spending. Using the funds to reduce the tax burden for everyone who pays taxes is completely different. The money goes right back into the private sector.<br /><br />Lower overall income taxes will make Ohio more competitive. Our severance taxes are way out of whack compared to other states, and would still be lower than most. They're still going to drill. Its money in the ground. Enacting such a policy that lowers income taxes is a win-win for the state economy. Heck, even Grover Norquist gives it the thumbs up.<br /><br />Thanks for discussing!Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-68630636176782366792012-06-24T07:18:48.613-04:002012-06-24T07:18:48.613-04:00Nick - Of course, we can disagree on this point. ...Nick - Of course, we can disagree on this point. I certainly don't agree with anybody 100% of the time, but I welcome the discussion. :)<br /><br />My comparison was not Kasich to Obama, as the two are clearly very different. The comparison was clearly of Kasich's policy/tax proposal to Obama's policy/tax proposal.<br /><br />Obama wants to tax the rich - have government collect the money - and then distribute as he sees fit to favored companies or individuals via various social welfare programs.<br /><br />Kasich's proposal is to tax a particular industry - have government collect the money - and then distribute it to individuals via an income tax rebate/offset.<br /><br />The two approaches are the same and Kasich wanting to put the taxed money into a separate fund before re-distributing it out doesn't change the basic premise that he's proposing to tax some in order to give to others.<br /><br />But you've raised a very interesting point when you say that Kasich's plan would <i>"allow all Ohio taxpayers to benefit from the resources that would be extracted from our state."</i><br /><br />If all Ohioans own all the resources of the state, is there anything left to the concept of private property?<br /><br />That would be a very dangerous precedent to establish and you really don't want to go down that road.Maggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12677808307727487766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21829866.post-34520672981322250862012-06-23T17:07:25.314-04:002012-06-23T17:07:25.314-04:00This is a rare occurance where I disagree with you...This is a rare occurance where I disagree with you, Maggie.<br /><br />I guess it's understandable that conservatives would be split on this proposal. However, is it really accurate or fair to compare Kasich to Barack Obama?<br /><br />Obama's "tax the rich" schemes are to bring in more money to the government, because he believes that government has a duty to redistribute wealth to those who choose not to earn for themselves.<br /><br />This proposal would not go to increased government spending. The money would go directly back to Ohio taxpayers, the ones who are earning a living and paying Ohio income tax. Because, of course, as conservatives, we believe that citizens know how to spend their own money better than the government. Kasich believes that about Ohio's taxpayers. His goal isn't to "redistribute" wealth, but to allow all Ohio taxpayers to benefit from the resources that would be extracted from our state.<br /><br />The difference between Kasich and Obama couldn't be more stark. Kasich's entire career has been one that is business friendly. Painting him as the same as Obama over this one issue isn't right.<br /><br />Have a great weekend!Nick (aka Bytor)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15826772166599084105noreply@blogger.com