Wednesday, January 09, 2008

Red Light/Speed Cameras - your help needed

We've been discussing the red light/speed cameras in and around Toledo during the Eye On Toledo show (podcasts available here) and if you missed tonight's guest, Christopher Finney, you must listen to the podcast!

He did an excellent job explaining that treating such offenses as a civil violation circumvents all the protections built into the criminal justice system - like presumption of innocence and the ability to confront your accuser.

But here's what I would like. If you've gotten a red light/speed camera citation, I'd like to see a copy of the citation, any instructions - and the envelope it came in, if you still have it.

You can email me at maggie at wspd dot com and we can arrange to get any copies to me. Thanks for your help!


The A-Hole Lawyer said...

Maggie - The A-Hole has one. I'm not sure about the envelope, or the dunning letters sent since I did not pay it, and am awaiting the Supreme Court's ruling on the camera's and perhaps participating in the class action suit if it gets filed.

I have posted on the subject on my blog, As a former police officer, I am all for safety and proper driving, the problem is red light cameras offer neither, and violate basic justice principles at the same time.

Email me and I will fax you my ticket.

The A-Hole. I will try and call in tomorrow on the show.

The A-Hole Lawyer said...

Increase while you can - limit the damage later
City counsel is considering a proposal to increase the fine for speeding and red light violations caught by traffic cameras within the city. Personal, political, and constitutional arguments aside, why would the city counsel be considering such a move at this time while a case is currently before the Ohio Supreme Court on the constitutionality of such tickets, and legislation has been proposed at the state level banning all such measures. Additionally, several cases from Toledo are currently being litigated on this issue, including, as the recent Blade article stated, one seeking class action status.Why not wait. If the violations are ruled to be unconstitutional, or the legislation passes banning them, what benefit will the city have gained by this most recent move. The counsel may in fact have created a larger job for the law department in attempting to collect from the private company after the fact and defending the potential flood of lawsuits.The facts about this enforcement method are sketchy at best. They have not been shown to reduce accidents. When a driver is approaching an intersection with a camera, it is unlikely they have the time or aforethought to consider the camera when making the decision to go through or aggressively apply their brakes. IF they do consider the camera, they are likely to stop more abruptly (or try to, often on wet/icy roads), potentially causing more accidents when the drivers behind them don't anticipate the quick stop. On a national level the cameras have been shown to be ineffective, and increase accidents.I trust the science; the technology, delay in photo activation, and video replay systems in place are accurate. BUT, I don't agree with taking enforcement discretion out of the equation, removing the due process rights of: confrontation, presentation of evidence, and fair trial/hearing out of traffic enforcement for financial gain. But I digress.My initial point is, once again the city is considering a counterproductive, potentially inefficient and costly move toward increased government control, the big brother state, and waisting its time and resources on measures that may be deemed illegal soon by our Supreme Court and Legislature.Take a breath Carty, Chief Navarre and Counsel................lets see where the chips fall before we ante up more citizens freedom for the almighty dollar to a private Arizona company.I guess I will add my pending red light ticket to the class action.

-Sepp said...

Maggie, in Germany where I first saw speed / redlight cameras, they have a law which says the driver MUST be identified that is driving the car in the photo.
A common practical joke in Germany is to wear a pig mask and drive through one of the permanent speed traps.

GraphicsGuy said...

Anyone that has contested their red light camera or speed camera citation:

I am doing some research and would appreciate any and all information about your experience in fighting your camera 'ticket'. The more details you can provide, the better.

Please send your 'hearing' experiences to

If you know of someone that has had a hearing, attempting to fight their camera ticket, please have them contact me.

All information will be kept confidential.

GraphicsGuy said...

In addition to needing 'hearing' experiences, I also seek anyone that has recently got one of these citations and HAS NOT sent in the money or requested a hearing."

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